Nuno Sebastião, CEO of Feedzai, on completely rethinking fraud management

Today we are focusing on financial crime and fraud management with the CEO and co-founder of Feedzai, one of the world’s largest independent risk management platforms serving banks and fintechs. Nuno shares his fascinating journey from being the first Portuguese engineer at the European Space Agency to building a global fintech powerhouse with over 700 employees across four continents.

The conversation explores how the fraud landscape has fundamentally shifted, where bad actors no longer target technical infrastructure but instead exploit people as the “weakest link in the chain” through AI-powered scams and social engineering. Nuno discusses Feedzai’s evolution from transaction fraud monitoring to a comprehensive risk management platform, emphasizing the critical need to move from detecting fraudulent activity to understanding customer intent. He also delves into the company’s TRUST framework for responsible AI, explaining why explainability is essential in financial services and much more.

In this podcast you will learn:

• Nuno’s transition from the European Space Agency to founding Feedzai.
• How he Feedzai has evolved since its early days and what it does today.
• What an AI-generated scam looks like.
• Why the weakest link is us.
• How you can protect the less sophisticated consumers.
• Why detecting fraud is no longer enough.
• How they are able to understand the intent of the customer.
• How can you be proactive, combining risk management and cyber security.
• What their TRUST Framework for responsible AI innovation is all about.
• What it means to be a critically systemic vendor for banks.
• What Nuno learned by interviewing the likes of Richard Branson, Stephan Hawking and Steve Wozniak.
• Feedzai’s geographic footprint and their distributed leadership team.
• The scale Feedzai is at today.

Fintech One on One Podcast No. 554: Nuno Sebastião

Nuno Sebastião:

One trend that I would put out there, I’m seeing it in the most innovative companies, is every size of Chief Information Security Officer that I speak to today at financial institutions. I am seeing a trend where under their purview, you have on one hand cybersecurity, on the other hand, risk management or fraud detection.

And I wonder, what does that do for tool vendors? It’s clear. There’s going to be a concept of if you start to want to do proactive threat management or risk management before it even hits your systems, you know, it’s just people logging in, they’re the right holders fraud, or someone gets a link. You know, you’re not even aware as a financial institution. These two, know, sides of the house need to evolve and understand that the world has changed.

Peter Renton:

This is the Fintech One-on-One podcast, the show for Fintech enthusiasts looking to better understand the leaders shaping Fintech and banking today. My name is Peter Renton and since 2013, I’ve been conducting in-depth interviews with Fintech founders and banking executives. Today on the show, I’m delighted to welcome Nuno Sebastiao, CEO and co-founder of Feedzai, one of the world’s largest independent risk management platforms serving banks and fintechs. We discuss his unlikely journey starting as the first Portuguese engineer at the European Space Agency. That’s a fun story in and of itself. To building a global fintech powerhouse with over 700 employees across four continents.

Nuno shares critical insights into how the industry must shift from detecting fraudulent activity to understanding customer intent. The importance of explainable AI in maintaining consumer trust and why today’s most sophisticated threat actors are targeting the weakest link in the security chain, us. There’s a lot to unpack here, so let’s get on with the show.

Welcome to the podcast, Nuno.

NS: Thank you, thank you for having me Peter.

PR: My pleasure. So let’s kick it off by giving listeners a little bit of background. You’ve got a pretty interesting background, you know, having worked in a variety of different roles, including for the European Space Agency, which I think you might be the first person on the podcast who has done that kind of thing. So why don’t you tell us some of the highlights of your career before Feedzai?

NS: Awesome. So first of thanks for having me. I am, you know, as a person, you know, someone that is an engineer, I’m a builder at heart. And since young age, you know, having done numerous build attempts at things, I really wanted to be, you know, the, whatever I would call the forefront of what’s out there that it could be building. I’m Portuguese, so coming from a place like Portugal, where it’s not, you know, it’s a Silicon Valley, you know, the opportunities are limited.

So I put myself out there and I said, what’s the most challenging thing I could be doing or could it, you knowing that, you know, interestingly enough, my goal was always to spend and to a substantial amount of time in the Bay Area and in the core of what building products is all about. And this was like 1999, 2000 as I was going through undergrad student and then know dot com came about so you know there was not a lot of opportunities for a Portuguese guy to migrate to the bay area so what i did was okay what’s the next best alternative and it happened that Portugal had just joined the European Space Agency as a full member of the organization and that was a very simple there was a call for you know the first people they call it the first pioneers to actually go to the agency

I applied and lo and behold, I was the first Portuguese at the operations center. Operations center is when you see space movies and the Houston control center, that’s what the space operations center is like. And imagine you’re 21, 22 and someone says, yeah, you can go work on that. Like, wow, that is cool, right? So that’s what I did. I applied, I got lucky. They picked me. So I ended up there for what was supposed to be a nine month internship and it up to be an eight year journey.

PR: Right, right. then tell us a little bit about the seeds for Feeds Eye. What did you see? Jumping from the space agency to starting like an anti-fraud company isn’t an obvious thing to do, what was the thinking there?

NS: It was simple. you know, there we worked in really technical complex challenges. I what I tell people sometimes is, if something in space breaks, it’s not that you go there and fix it, right? You know, so you have to really ensure that those systems work and the resilience are robust and whatnot. On the flip side is you’re looking at very long time spans, you know, projects, you know, 20 years, 30 years type of thing.

And that, you know, once you’re there in a few years, you kind of crave more because, you know, what you’re working is too far out. So myself and a couple of friends that had worked with me before, one of them, you know, they’re my co-founders in the company at FISA. One of them, Peter, was my thesis supervisor when I was an undergrad student. He went on, he actually moved to the US at the time. He was a Fulbright scholar and he was doing, you know, his PhD there.

Paolo was the third co-founder. He actually visited me and worked with me at the space agency and we built a really strong relationship. And one day I put to them, you know, look, you you too are the smartest person I know. Why don’t we go and build something? The worst thing that can happen is we come back to these jobs and we have a reputation and we’ll get a job. So why don’t we try? mean, we’re at the right age, you know, it’s kind of like…in your late 20s, early 30s, let’s go do this. And they were fool enough or they were brave enough, it depends on how you want to put it, to take the challenge on. So I quit first a year, because we didn’t really have no money. I quit first and started building a team. There was a research team that we brought from, that they were working on. And what we had, based on our backgrounds, I came from the space agency and there I was working in simulating real world environments, so-called simulation of the world in a way or reality. They were coming at it from the data large scale data processing world and the machine learning world. And so we built a piece of kit, a piece of technology that essentially could in real time correlate a large number of data sets, data and infer patterns. That’s what we built. And then, you know, and I say this to many founders is, building a piece of technology that has some particular aspects, that’s the easy part. Then the hard part is make sure that that fits in a world and solves a problem that a sufficiently large number of people are willing to pay for so that you can make a business. That process, you know, took a while. And that’s how, through a number of years, trial and error, trial and error, where can we apply this technology? We were kind of drawn, and there’s always internal factors, external factors, we were kind of drawn to what at the time was called fraud monitoring, transactional fraud for cards. So it was one step at a time that brought us into that world, and then we built a company around it.

PR: Right. Okay. So then what have you kind of built since those days? And maybe you could just describe, how do you describe Feedzai today?

NS: Yeah. So as a company, and here I have to, for the audience, mention some that is really, really have to people that believe in you. So then we raised a little bit of money. I moved to the US, so my dream of actually moving to the Bay Area came through in about 2012 or so. And it was astonishing because a lot of people helped you, a lot of people believed in you. And you start to build on that.

And you say, okay, where’s the world going? So what we built as a company is a reflection of where the world is going at different points in time. 2015, when we were starting on this, it was all about mobile adoption, right? If you remember in 2012, people say, what’s your mobile strategy? No one says that anymore today, right? But at the time, that was the thing. So, you know, how do we protect consumers in the emerging mobile world? That was the first iteration of the company, what you’d call transaction fraud monitoring for mobile devices and the new world of doing everything in a way, there wasn’t even walls at the time, an online app that would allow you to do that in your phone. But of course then the world moves, right? Then you have, you’re not only doing your transactions, new generations are coming up that want to live entirely in a digital world. want to open up a buy-service, open an account, do all of that without ever seeing anyone physically. How do you deal with that? So new use cases, driven a lot by listening to your customers, started to shape your understanding of the world and your product roadmap. So things like identity, how do we validate identity? And then later on, even things like compliance.

So today, what the company is as we’re mature and robust is we offer a suite of products under one term we call risk ops, you can call risk management that basically for identity, things like account opening, onboarding of consumers. And then for when you’re in the system, transactional monitoring. when you’re doing stuff with your app, online, physical, you name it, combining all of that and then for compliance solutions as well. So today we operate a company according to these three buckets. And of course, as we mature and as we evolve, others will come up. Today, you have a world where we’re seeing the way risk manifests itself is not so much as a function of someone trying to commit fraud, but the entire, let’s say, scams or entire know, deep fakes, they’re actually wider cybersecurity issues. How do we play in that world? And when I mentioned to you and I mentioned, would say this to everyone in the audience, speak with your clients, see how their organizations are being shaped. You’ll understand and you’ll get signals of where to take your organization into the future as you evolve your product.

PR: Right. Okay. So I do want to, I do want to do a deep dive into some of these fraud issues because it’s such an important topic as a hot topic for every FinTech company, credit union, you name it. Everyone is focused on it right now. And your recent reports said that more than 50 % of fraud today is AI generated. Maybe you could sort of paint a picture for us. What does an AI generated scam look like?

NS: So this is the interesting thing of, you know, when you’re in an industry for a period of time, you see it morph, right? Go back years, it was largely what I would call an artisanal. The bad actors, it was largely artisanal. It was not very sophisticated. It was the level of sophistication, but it was largely artisanal because people have to physically do things, steal your credit card, do skim it, do clone it, all of those things.

Today and the industry fix those holes, terminals are safe, more friction here, more friction there. In a world where the cost of some of these AI techniques is, I say zero, but very, very low, what has been realized the last, say, couple of years, three years maybe, is that actually the weakest link is not the physical terminals anymore. It’s you, the person. The weakest link in the chain is actually the individual. And all of us, without exception, we’re actually quite susceptible and easy to quote unquote trick. So what do you see today? What is, you know, let’s say the coined or term scams are largely attempts at tricking you into doing certain actions. I’ve seen things like there’s no tool in the world that can actually stop fraud because you as the owner of an account, as the owner with your credentials, with your logins, with your passwords, you’re actually committed, you’re doing the operation, but you’ve been tricked. So how do vendors and tools like mine operate in a world where no one stole anything, no one impersonated anyone? You’re genuinely believing you should be sending that money or buying that good for you, the user. So how do we operate? Right? That’s just one way. And the other one is because of the cost coming so down, it’s just a statistical aspect. It’s just a brute force. You send out so many, you flood the world with attacks that even if the conversion rate is minimal, it still pays off because the cost is low. So it’s a very rational industry that I see building. And some of it, you know, very recently we’re seeing, you know, given all the dynamics out there, state sponsored. So these are actually very sophisticated players. And I wonder, and I work with, you know, our colleagues in the industry is, okay, assume fraud is free. How do you play? How do you do it? How do you protect your consumers?

PR: I hear what you’re saying and I think it’s pretty obvious with anyone. Like today I probably get, I don’t know, between two and four texts a day, which seem like they’re fraudulent, you know, Coinbase is huge, everyone’s doing that.

NS: Yeah, I get lot of vouchers and lot of codes.

PR: Yes, exactly. So how do you build systems that can help the sort of the less sophisticated user, we say, who’s not getting two to four a day, they may be getting one a week and they go, well one a month. They go, look, someone’s hacked my Coinbase account. This is horrible. And then how do you even try to protect that consumer?

NS: We have a very clear thesis and it’s based on two, let’s say, axes of change. One is you have to move from detecting fraud, like this action is fraudulent. That’s not good enough anymore. That was good 10, five years ago. It doesn’t work anymore. You have to move to understanding what we call intent.

You know, what is your intent, Peter? Do I know enough about you to understand? I’ll give you a very complete example. In my household, Netflix account is on my name. My wife gets a text, say, your Netflix activation code has expired. Please click here to renew. She clicks on it. Only after clicking, she realizes, but hold on, Netflix is not on my name, it’s on your name. It’s in your account.

Intent is important. If the tools are playing you, then the Netflix account is not in our name. So how do you understand that? That is a complex issue. It’s an issue that requires collaboration between good players. Some people would say, well, we have to share even more. I wouldn’t call it data share. I would call it insights, understanding, all of that.

But there’s more, there’s to that. then understanding more than just a simplistic, know, transactional or more simplistic, what is happening right now? Like, what’s the intent? You know, a LinkedIn message with a physical link, a Netflix message with a link that doesn’t go to Netflix? They would never do that. That was not their intent.

Because if everyone says, know, many banks say, we will never send you a message. Well, but people, whenever they receive a message from the bank, they will click on it. We’re just wired like that. It was not their intent. So this is the way I put it. You have to understand intent, and you’ll need to know more. But then balancing that with privacy concerns and all those things, you will need to know more about, you know, the environment of what’s going on of that household or that account or of that Coinbase account as you’re mentioning and all that.

PR: Have you changed your systems then to provide more of holistic view of the customer so they can recognize intent? Because intent doesn’t seem like it’s all that easy to recognize.

NS: It’s very hard. Luckily, we have seen so much and with such high level of density in terms of behavior. Because why? Because we have the identity solutions, the transaction solutions. When you combine all that data, you can actually see at an early stage, let’s be clear, but the glimmers of, I understand the behavior of this cohort here. This cohort could be a house, could be person, could be…whatever level granularity. And when you go into that, you say, this, I didn’t see over the last two years any payment or any opening of an account in one of these providers. Why is a person now clicking on something to go pay that? That was clearly not the intent. The challenge is the users, the potential users, that be the fintechs or the banks or whatnot, they’re way behind in adoption.

And that’s why the tools that today are used to combat this type of scandal, this type of approaches, they’re highly ineffective because they’re still based on the premise of what was before. But what we’re seeing is in the places where there’s this, as you call it, moralistic approach, they do it in a number of ways.

For instance, a lot of deployment of newer AI gen…GenAI type of techniques into the conversation when you’re trying to dissuade someone that said, sir, we have some questions about this payment. You shouldn’t do it, even though it’s you doing the payment. Let me ask you few questions about this payment. And then you kind of start. And then these techniques helping you, because the problem is how do you do this at scale in a cheap way? Or in a cost effective way? not, you know, if we were just stopping one event, it would be easy. You call the person and you’re sending money to, I don’t know, pick your destination. Are you, yeah, someone I met online or whatnot. Well, are you sure? This is costly, right? The cost of stopping that is goes. So the child, how do you do it at scale? Some of these techniques can’t hear because you have context. You understand the intent of, you know, yeah, I’m sending it because someone I met online is a friend and he asked me to pay for, you know, father’s or mother’s bills because they don’t have enough money and I’m just doing a gesture of goodwill. Okay, let’s do some, and then you say, okay, that is not what you should be doing, you’re being scammed. That is costly. What we do is build some tools that allow us to do this at a lower cost at scale. But Peter, let’s be clear, this newer wave of fraud techniques enabled by some…uh… you know uh… a ideal of the dates you know we’re talking about the last twelve right eighteen months right or maybe two years so i’m still not seeing and mass adoption of how to solve it the the way to to solve the weights being solved today is frankly is largely speaking education of people right until and don’t think on the link which is which is a lot of a large part uh… but a lot of it’s the worst if I if I as a vendor, I always obsess of what do I need to do for the next three to five years, it has to be around this area.

PR: Yeah, for sure. I think, as you say, there’s so much trust with banks. mean, we have, that’s one of the things that banks are really built on. And even lots of fintechs these days have a lot of trust. And, you know, so you get that text or email from what seems like your bank has got the chase logo on there, Capital One logo, and you don’t really look carefully at the link. The link looks like it’s going to Chase. you’ve got this bank as a customer and your systems when someone’s clicking on a link that looks like it’s changed. This is outside of Chase’s purview, right? I you can’t build systems to catch that necessarily.

NS: very interesting as you’re saying it because think about it, Chase doesn’t even know that’s going on.

PR: Right. They don’t even know. Until someone forwards them the email, they don’t know, yeah.

NS: So that’s a good point. for instance, proactively these financial organizations need to understand. And again, because these things are learned. So what happens today? Today you basically get an email from them. We have noticed that some of our consumers or customers have received misleading or fraudulent messages. Please don’t click on it. It’s still reactive. Is there a world where if you combine risk management with cybersecurity, and proactive threat management, you can say, you know, I picked up that there was a massive attempt out there at trying to get users to click on chase messages without even starting to receive phone calls. Or how early can I understand that? So there is a proactive versus a, some transaction was initiated or someone tried to log in.

How does it work? How do companies like ours work in a world that is proactive? One trend that I would put out there, I’m seeing it in the most innovative companies is every size of Chief Information Security Officer that I speak to today at financial institutions, I am seeing a trend where under their purview, you have on one hand, cybersecurity, on the other hand, risk management or fraud detection. And I wonder what does that do for tool vendors? It’s clear there’s going to be a concept of if you start to do proactive threat management or risk management before it even hits your systems, you know, just people logging in, they’re the right holders, fraud, or someone gets a link. You you’re not even aware as a financial institution. These two, know, sides of the house need to evolve and understand this. The world has changed, as always, but you know, just this normal financial institution reacting. I would put maybe not fast enough, but they’re certainly reacting.

PR: Okay, so I want to talk about your trust framework for responsible AI. was reading about that in my research before this interview. Maybe you can explain what the letters in TRUST stand for and then what it’s for and why explainability or how you’re approaching explainability.

NS: Well, it’s all about transparency and responsible. And how do you, in a transparent, responsible and explainable way, create trust in these systems? The word play we’ve used basically comes down to, I have to be able, due to the world and the market I’m working in, to build models that don’t discriminate, henceforth the responsible part. Build models, I can go to a regulator. In the world we work in, the one asset that a bank has today is the trust that you as a consumer deposit in them. That’s why when there’s no trust in the bank, there’s a bank run and the bank goes down. It’s literally that simple. so what we’ve built in our technology, we started from first principles. Our system has to be extremely easy to explain what was going on in our model modeling techniques. And I mentioned my co-founder, Pedro, he leads our trust. He actually came up with our trust framework and we brought in a bunch of other institutions and that basically are also researching as part of that. What does that mean, Peter, in reality?

It means we built machine learning techniques up there that we made open source and that other vendors can use or other industries when they want to have absolute transparency in the model. In technical terms, means if a model that says this is risk or this is fraud, it will tell you why it reached that conclusion. And for the audience members more and more technically inclined, will agree that this is a very hard challenge in our world. I can give you an output on a model, but then, you know, most of the times it’s very hard to explain why did the model reach that conclusion. It’s just the way it’s built. We have done in a way that we can poke inside. And then there’s elements like safety and whatnot into it.

PR: That’s one of the disadvantages that we have as the good guys. The bad guys don’t have to do explainability. No. They just do whatever they…

NS: They don’t have to be responsible. don’t have to do auditable. And look, you know, could we build techniques that wouldn’t do that? And if we do deploy them, we could probably could. But the one thing we don’t want to do is affect consumers because it comes down to the trust in the financial services, you know, and say, I just stopped your activity in the bank and I just block your account. Why? I actually don’t know why but it correlates with, you know, we cannot do that. I think that’s a good thing to be honest.

PR: Yeah, I understood. That’s fair. You don’t want a machine arbitrarily closing down accounts and that would be a nightmare for PR and marketing.

NS: Exactly. And more than that, mean, think about it. We’re talking about the more simplistic use case, which is kind of like, okay, stop the payment. Okay, you can retry the payment or you can use some other card or whatnot. But what about if it is you requesting a loan or you requesting, you know, a refinancing on your mortgage or you requesting, it can actually impact your life.

So, the worst thing that this industry can have is impacting people’s lives and decisions without being able to explain why are you not giving credit to that person or to that company. So there, I for once like to work with regulators. I for once like to actually be in pretty much all our financial institutions, we were what is considered a critical systemic vendor. That basically means that we have to, you know, we’re typically in a group of five to 10 companies working with these banks that have a systemic risk to them. And so the level of audit and compliance that they put us through, it’s, you know, extremely high, almost excruciatingly high. But it’s for a reason, right? And I think in the end, if you look at, know, in a bigger context of what the industry has gone through and whatnot, I believe with balance, it’s doing a good job of still keeping bad actors out there while working in what you’d call a far more restrictive environment than a bad actor that doesn’t have to come to come to concern about compliance and data privacy and PII. They don’t care about any of that, right? They just use it all. But I think, you know, it’s a balance. So we’re always working with, you know, compliance officers and the regulators throughout the world, providing our point of view. And I believe that that we help them a lot when they’re drafting their policies.

We’re helping them a lot with our, you know, here’s what I mean from a technical standpoint, some of those things. And because we invest so much in things like trust and our responsible AI, they look at us and this is just not a vendor that is trying to remove barriers and try to make it as easy as possible. They actually put substantial amount of money and investment behind these types of things. They actually believe in these types of things.

PR: Okay. So I want to switch gears a little bit and talk about some of the big names that you’ve shared a stage with. I’ve been in the audience for some of these, you know, you’ve got at Money 2020, I remember the Richard Branson conversation, Steve Wozniak, Stephen Hawking. mean, these are some of the giants of, you know, business and technology over the last few decades. What did you learn from these conversations?

NS: Very interesting. realize that as an entrepreneur that, you know, one thing that these guys all have and these persons is an insatiable curiosity of, you know, unpacking things, going to understanding to the, you know, lower levels of detail and really understanding a heart problem. And then what they’re good at doing is step one is understanding it. Step two is communicating how to go about it, how to fix it, how to address it. You would call it a vision, right? And then, you know, with their energy, engagement, bringing people with them in that journey, right? That’s no different than, you know, what I’m trying to do here and what you’re trying to do is kind we try to, you know, understand the problem, focus on it, be really good at it, and then bring people along in that journey. This is what I’ve from all of them. It’s the one thing, the level of detail that they can go to in some of the areas is just astonishing.

PR: Right, right. So we were chatting before we hit record here. I know you’re in Porto, Portugal today. And you are born and bred in Portugal, but this is a very global company and you talked about some of your travels. Maybe give us a sense of the scale you’re at, what geographical footprint, like how many people Feedzai has, that sort of thing.

So we are fortunate, but when you start out to build these type of companies, three people, you always kind of like wonder, you know, until where, what can we make of this? And today I look at, was in June, give you an example. The one thing I really love is to spend time with my clients, customers, my partners. And I like to visit them in person. So in June, I did something like, Singapore, Dubai, Sydney, then fight to SF, then fight to London, to New York, sorry, then to London, then to Paris, and then to Lisbon. And so today we are present in the four corners in the world. Like literally we have people in Australia, we have people in Singapore, we have people in Sao Paulo, we have, you know, of course a lot of people in Europe, we have a lot of people in the US totally. I don’t want to misquote, but I think it’s well over 700 people in the company. One thing I’m really proud of my leadership team. My CFO is in New York. My marketing is just outside of New York. My head sales is in London. Engineering we do from Portugal. My head of customer success is based out of London slash Italy with a large team in the US. So it’s really, truly, truly global and truly, you know, close to our clients. And one thing that we really believe is on the more technical side or what we call SMEs, subject matter experts, you know, people, one advice I would give to entrepreneurs and others that building their companies, really hire people from the industry where you’re trying to solve your problem. We did that in the US, we did that in Europe, we did that in Latin America, we did that in APAC. And when you bring in these people that I, some of them have been practitioners in whatever, you know, domain and you bring them in, they’re really transformed. It really informs how to build product. What problems within your problem area should we be really focused on? Where to invest your dollars? So we’re on that journey. We put a path for the next three, four years to our board. We’re executing on that. And I would argue that today we are by far the largest independent vendor in this space. And we built it from nothing. By independent, I mean not public or not owned by a large conglomerate where this is just a division or a small division within that much wider purview of action. So we’re focused on what we do. And on what we do, we keep on winning in all the regions at a scale that I would challenge no one comes close to. that gives me a lot of joy, of course, right? Businesses are growing, you’re hiring people, your sales are growing. But I also see it as a big responsibility that you have towards your clients, towards your investors, towards your people. if we keep on this path, we will continue to work with all these clients and we’ll continue to be this, I don’t say it’s not massive for the second size, but this really big independent company addressing the crisis or the problem of risk management in financial services.

PR: Okay, well, it’s a good place to end it, Nuno. I really appreciate you coming on the show today. is, as I said, it’s such important work that you’re doing and helping so many in the industry. thanks and best of luck to you.

NS: Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me, it was fun.

PR: See ya.

I think it’s really interesting that fraudsters have moved away from attacking technical infrastructure to targeting people directly. As Nino said, the weakest link is not the physical terminals anymore, it’s you, the person. The weakest link in the chain is actually the individual. This insight is crucial because it means the traditional security measures are no longer sufficient.

The industry needs new approaches that can protect consumers from themselves when they’ve been manipulated by increasingly sophisticated social engineering attacks. This is where Feedzai and the entire anti-fraud industry is moving.

Anyway, that’s it for today’s show. If you enjoy these episodes, please go ahead and subscribe, tell a friend or leave a review. And thanks so much for listening.