Jake Corlyon and Alistair Canal of Capital Collection Management (CCM)

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It is often said in the lending business that it is easy to loan money out, the difficult part of trying to get it back. And in challenging times, like we are living in now, that job becomes even more difficult. So, I thought it was time we talked about strategies for collecting money in tough economic conditions.

Our next guests on the Lend Academy Podcast are Jake Corlyon and Alistair Canal of Capital Collection Management (CCM). They are a collection agency serving fintech lenders, banks and credit unions with a new kind of approach.

We recorded this podcast on Zoom so you can watch this interview on YouTube or view it below.

In this podcast you will learn:

  • How CCM is different to the typical collection agency.
  • What it means to have an empathetic, people-centric approach to collections.
  • How they are using tech and AI in their business.
  • The types of verticals where they operate.
  • The impact of the economic crisis on their business in the last three months.
  • How consumers have been behaving when it comes to their debts recently.
  • How they treat those people who were already under duress before the crisis.
  • The differences in B2B and B2C clients.
  • Their advice for lenders today in dealing with new borrowers.
  • How to prepare your business if the economy gets much worse.
  • The ideal time to hand off collections to an agency.
  • What is on tap for CCM for the rest of this year and beyond.

Read a transcription of our conversation below.


Welcome to the Lend Academy Podcast, Episode No. 250, this is your host, Peter Renton, Founder of Lend Academy and Co-Founder of LendIt Fintech.


Today’s episode is sponsored by LendIt Fintech Digital, the new online community for financial services innovators. Today’s challenges are extraordinary with the upheaval affecting all areas of finance. More than ever before, we need to come together as an industry to learn from each other and make sense of this new world. Join LendIt Fintech Digital to connect and learn all year long from your peers and from the fintech experts. Sign up today at digital.lendit.com

Peter Renton: Today on the show, we are talking about collections with Capital Collection Management. I’m delighted to welcome Jacob Corlyon, he is the Co-Founder and CEO and Alistair Canal, he is the President of Global Sales. Now, CCM haven’t been around that long, but they’ve already developed quite a reputation in the fintech and banking space. They have, I would say, a fairly unique approach in this industry, insofar as they use an empathetic and people-centered approach combined with technology to really become a more effective collections partner and we go into that in some depth.

We also talk about  how they’ve changed their business in response to the economic crisis and the fact that we have tens of millions of people who are struggling, not that they haven’t struggled before. We talk about what’s next for CCM and how they’re really going to, you know, grow in such an environment. It was a fascinating interview, I hope you enjoy the show.

Welcome to podcast Jake and Al.

Jacob Corlyon: Glad to be here, Peter.

Alistair Canal: Yes, happy to be here, thank you.

Peter: Okay. So, let’s just get started with some background, maybe we could start with you first, Jake, and just tell us a little background about yourself and what you’ve done in your career to date.

Jake: Sure. So, my name is Jacob Corlyon, the Co-Founder and CEO of Capital Collection Management, been in the collections industry for 12 years now. I currently serve as the President of the New York State Collectors Association. Before my time here at CCM, I was in- house collections for a large fintech called Bankers Healthcare Group for many years so, very happy to be here with you guys on the podcast today,

Peter: Okay, thanks. And, Al?

Al: Yes, Alistair Canal here, President of Revenue and Chanels at CCM. For about 15 years, I was in the financial services space working for organizations, not just analog, in general, then Bankers Healthcare Group which as Jake said the fintech he referenced there. And then from there, I went to Promontory Financial Group and did some time at Live Oak Bank (garbled) quite a great pride in there to have worked for these companies. I’m delighted to be here with CCM working alongside with Jake here and excited to be on this podcast.

Peter: Okay, likewise. So, maybe just give us some background about CCM, explain what it does and maybe a little bit of the history of the company.

Al: CCM is a unique organization in many ways, in all wonderful ways and I will have to say, simply put, CCM provides peace of mind, Peter, for the organizations who retain us to work with their clients. You know, there’s a lot of ups and downs in the revenue life cycle so, you’ve got organizations that aren’t built and poised to handle those type of tasks so we can man and provide a really boutique and refined service for them which is first and third party. So, first party is an effort that is more of a softer approach that helps the clients kind of take on and collect on debt that perhaps is not collected at a certain time.

Then we come in as third party and act as CCM. The first party will come in as XYZ Corporation representing that as their company and third party will come in as CCM (garbled) more supportive and more collection activities at that point. What makes us really unique, and we’re so proud of this, is the culture that Jake’s built here for the last seven years is really one that’s people first, an empathetic approach, an approach that is really human, let’s talk human to our debtors and support our clients very well.

In doing that, we get a lot of engagement and a lot of people who are receptive to that type of approach and, more importantly, our clients feel really good because we’re protecting the brand while providing them a really good service that we feel is unparalleled out there in the industry to date. So, that coupled with the nationwide litigation services we provide, right.  We are licensed in all 50 states, all states and that’s wonderful, not too many groups are and two, we provide a nationwide litigation service so we can better litigate in all of the jurisdictions throughout the country and it’s proprietary network that Jake and the team have created.

And then lastly, we occasionally look at organizations that says, you know, I don’t want to look at these debts in my books anymore, I’ve had it for a long time, can you consider buying this debt from us. So, we will do that as well so the sooner that (inaudible) factor that we offer is that, you know, first the third party, nationwide litigation and, lastly, some debt resolutions for them as well. And there’s other SRA items that we provide as a service for the auto finance bankruptcy solutions and things like that. Simply stated, that’s kind of what we’re doing. I’ll let Jake talk about the history of the company since he’s the Founder of the company.

Peter: Okay, Jake?

Jake: Yeah, that sounds great. So, we were founded in 2013 and our goal was really to change the face of the industry. So, for far too long, you know, the collections space and the collections industry really had a black model. We believe that our people, you know, coming with that people first approach, very customer-centric, I know it’s cliche, but we believe that a debtor should be treated with empathy and really provided with a concierge experience.

So, we get them back on track and have them continue to be a valuable customer to our clients and our business model was built on the premise that we should re-think, re-imagine and recover an industry that is vital to our economy. That’s kind of our premise and our calling to really why we created this company. Now, today, when you look at where we started it was really fintech focused and now, as Alistair alluded to, we’re in multiple industries, we’re continuing to branch out and find new industries that we can get into and help.

Peter: Okay. Let’s just dig in a little bit, I want to talk the process because, you know, when you think about collections, collection agencies, you think about people in a call center dialing customers, demanding cash. Obviously, it’s not a very pleasant experience all around…so, I mean, you’ve talked about sort of empathy and building a people-centric approach, how does that actually work in practice?

Al: You want to take that one, Jake?

Jake: Sure, go ahead.

Al: So, that’s a great question and I think Jake and I both agree, there is a bit of a notion out there, sort of an image, sort of a stigma, if you will, with respect to how the industry at large practices what they do and that’s one of the opportunities of working with us because of the way we built our company, the way we practice. It’s a mindset that we have in our organization and the mindset is one, again, you’re going to hear a lot about people first, empathetic approach and that unique kind of notion that we look for.

But, it really is the model and the philosophy and the principles that Jake and the team have put together that empower our team. We call them account representatives, or relationship representatives, not collectors because they are trained to engage, to listen, to have that ear that says, we get it, we get it. People have had challenging times, well I have. I think anyone who says they haven’t is perhaps not speaking the truth.

At the end of the day, the model that we have is one that is not…let’s send them a stack of letters that perhaps have very firm language and make people kind of shudder in their boots a little bit when they get that, they’ll be acting from a fear position versus, okay, I trust this person, I do have an obligation, they’re communicating with me in a very good manner and they want to help me succeed, they want to help me get healthier financially. So, the way we kind of …the way I think of it is when our representatives are on the phone, I often hear them say not these words, but, you know, tell me your story so we can really help you, right, a more successful ending financially and that’s really what they do. It’s not being done out there, the old style, the old model is not working. So, that coupled with people, technology and our philosophies is paramount.

One more thing I’ll add to that, I think it makes a big difference with us is, there’s a ton of attrition in the space. If you asked anybody who is familiar with the space will say there’s a lot of turnover with the people, the collectors and those who do this task for a living. With us, it’s virtually non-existent, our people like enabling others, that’s the culture that Jake has built and I think is a testament to what our thought processes are, how we treat our clients and the debtor as well because they’re both very important, they’re both very important to us. Does that make sense, Peter, I hope.

Peter: Yeah, yeah. So maybe we can expand on that a little bit and dig into the technology side because, I mean, obviously, I know that Jake when I was doing…I did a bit of research, I read how much you believe in using technology to help drive your business. So, maybe tell us a little bit how you’re using tech, I have read you are using AI as well, so maybe give us a little bit of color there.

Jake: Sure. So, technology is really paramount to our success. When you look at the industry as a whole, you know, there’s not a lot of agencies that are picking up…..you know, they way they’re using this great technology, trying to stay at bleeding edge, cutting edge of technology development and we really, you know, try to focus on that because we believe that we’re bringing out technology, we’re going to be able to drive and build efficiencies within the process to be able to do more with less people, to be able to provide a better service and more of that concierge experience for not only our clients, but our clients’ clients, the debtors that we’re talking to, whether that’s a business, or a consumer.

And, our technology platform allows us to leverage a machine learning engine and Artificial Intelligence to really give it, you know, a lot of the information that a human would have to remember. We feel that by doing that it’s going to do a couple of things for us. One is reduce human error which is going to ultimately boost our overall compliance as a company because when you look at the collections space, especially on the third party side, there’s a lot of compliance around, you know, what we need to do, it varies by state, you know, you have federal statutes.

So, it’s a lot for a collector to know as they’re working a national portfolio. So, what we’ve done is build all of that knowledge into our collections platform so that if for some reason a collector over here on the East Coast were to call somebody on the West Coast and it’s 8:00 in the morning over there, and it’s obviously earlier than 8:00 in the morning in California, our system just won’t let them make that phone call. If you don’t have a robust technology platform that allows you to really build on the compliance pieces, you know, that human error, they working through a queue and they’re trying to get as many contacts in a day as possible to help as many people.

So, you know, we feel that using our machine learning engine and using our AI, which I’ll kind of speak to a little bit in a second, is really giving us a leg up on the compliance side of things.

Then you look at…..you know, we’re using an omni channel communications method so we’ve got the standard phone calls, we’ve got the letters, we have SMS capabilities, we have email capabilities, we can virtually drop voicemails, you know, we have an AI chatbot.

So, again, that’s where we’ve taken that AI to the next steps so we have the ability to now have a 24/7, 365-collection life cycle where if you don’t have some sort of AI leverage within your platform, you’re not going to be able to offer that. And, we find that in today’s day and age, it’s somewhat core, especially when you have the younger generation now that’s going to be going into that will have issues and will need to talk to somebody.

They’re used to more self-service, they’re used to going to an online portal more talking through a virtual chat to really self-service their own needs on their own time. So, we’ve built all the knowledge again with all of our client parameters into our machine learning engine so that in giving that AI the knowledge to honestly do everything a collector could do, except engage in a human type of transaction.

But, if somebody wanted to not to talk to somebody they can come right into our web portal, or through our chatbot and go back and forth negotiating, you know, payment plan arrangement, or negotiating a lump sum settlement and the system can do that. It’s not everything that can stand up the documentation. So, we really put a lot of effort into our technology and a lot of capital into building, you know, really state-of-the-art solution with our vendor partners.

Peter: So, maybe just a quick clarification. I’m curious about….does your technology then…do you know that people are going to respond…. somebody will respond better to a phone call, somebody will respond better to an email, somebody will respond better to an SMS, you know, the time of day, people respond. Is that all kind of part of what you’re offering?

Jake: Yeah. So, we can extract all that data, which we do, to create, you know, collections models and things of that nature. So, we can take that data out of the system and pull that back into strategy.

Peter: Okay, okay. So then, you mentioned that you started in fintech and maybe tell us what industries you’re operating in, maybe beyond fintech.

Al:  Absolutely. So, fintech is a big industry for us, right, it’s our largest account and customers bankers software group, (garbled) portfolio that we manage for them so we’re heavy into that space. Additionally, we’re into banks as well, right, so the financial services around banks, credit unions. Auto finances is a space for us as well, healthcare is a big space for us and there’s some secondary industries that we’re servicing like higher litigation. Shipping is becoming a nice one for us. Professional services is one where we’re finding some great successes so, there’s professional, legal, accounting and engineering, things of that nature. And, we’re always looking at sourcing new opportunities, for instances organizations that we’re meeting on a regular basis and fairly through the industries that exist out there are, what those needs are, what those needs (garbled) maintain that opportunity and keep growing.

Peter: Right, okay. So, why don’t we switch gears a little bit. We haven’t talked about the current environment yet and clearly, we know from reading the news that there are many millions, tens of millions of people who are struggling today that may not have been struggling three months ago. So, maybe… I’d be curious to know…let’s just start with how have you seen…what’s been the impact, so far, on the let’s just call it an economic crisis, I guess we can call it that, so what’s been the impact, so far, on the different business lines and how you’re operating as a business.

Jake: Yeah, that’s a great question. So, when you look at the economic current state of things with the COVID issues, you know, we’re really trying to stay in front of the game a little bit, So, as all of these started to happen, you know, we put a lot more focus on meeting with our clients and talking to them about what we want to be able to offer to you, you know, to their debtors and really kind of going down that path of, alright, we’re going to need to give people modifications on their current accounts or deferment options. What do those look like, what can we do, you know, what would you like to approve, one off bases, what can we just go ahead and do once we have somebody out there.

We want to really help these people and we understand that, you know, because our business model is really created on if we collect then we get paid based on a contingency fee, we really take a step back here, really try to help our clients and really try to help the end consumer business that owes our clients some money and say, alright, we’re going to take this approach, let’s talk about different options which is obviously pushing that payment out maybe at one, two, three, six months to where we would not necessarily generate any revenue off of that, a service, you know, to the economy and our clients to really be that ambassador in that brand, push for them.

So, that’s been a really big focus for us and we’ve seen a lot of people from out of our different business lines taking these deferment options, taking these loan modifications very well. We’ve also seen kind of the other side of the coin where people who are still working, or maybe they are a nurse practitioner or an MD that’s working more than ever in really hard hit areas, so they really kind of have more of an issue with timing to sit down and have some time to their self.

So, that’s kind of another avenue where we’ve helped in (garbled) auto pay, things of that nature so, we’re really trying to help on both sides of the coin there. Outside of that, we’ve seen still a lot of people have funds to make payments to our creditors and, again, to add to some of the more aged debt we’ve kind of a spike a little bit in offers for lump sum settlements in full coming through our doors that we’re able to review with our clients and get those accepted as well.

Peter: So, you think that’s kind of like the stimulus package, obviously, the stimulus check, most people have by now, and then you also got like the unemployment that’s coming in now. Some people are earning more than they earned in their job, I mean, has that been part of what of you’ve been seeing as far as driving that behavior?

Al: Yeah, I think that’s a big part of it. We really sat with our group of account executives and really coached them into not specifically asking for money that was in relation to the stimulus, or employment funds that they’re receiving. But, we’re finding that a lot of people……because that really weighs on somebody so, they’re in debt, especially if it’s old and it’s just sitting out there, when they get some additional cash that comes in, whether it’s through stimulus or through making some additional money that they normally didn’t because of the unemployment package, they’re really trying to get out there and settle and carry as much of the debt that they have whilst still maintaining their ability to pay and take care of their family.

Peter: Right, right, okay. So then, I’m curious about the people that were already….they’re already your clients before this crisis and so, they’re already having some problems, it might have been on unemployment even before. How do you treat those people because these are people that were under duress, they may be under more duress, or they may be under the same amount of duress…I’m curious about if there’s anything you’re doing for those kinds of people differently than what you would normally do.

Jake: Yes, So, you know, we really talk a lot about our people first approach and how we train our staff to engage with empathy though, you know, a lot about asking questions, active listening which is really where our technology helps us because it allows the collector to really focus on the human that’s on the other end of the line, really meeting their needs, figuring out what their finances look like today and creating an innovative solution for them with our clients’ needs in mind to give them some sort of relief, or some sort of help and get them back on track.

So, we found that people who are already in kind of their collection cycle and process before, there hasn’t really been a change in our engagement with them. It’s more along the lines of, you know, now we’re starting to get people who are coming back to us and trying to engage us in working something out.

Peter: Interesting, interesting. So, are you seeing differences between……I imagine you have some business-to-business type clients as well as just business-to-consumer, are you seeing differences in those two types of clients?

Jake: Yeah. So, the business-to-business clients, depending on what area they’re in, in terms of specialty, so there is a restaurant at this point in time and obviously those have been hit really hard and it’s something that ‘s probably going to be one of the last things to open coming out of this crisis in a full capacity….you know, the takeout business just isn’t really doing a lot for them to really make the money that they would from the sit-down service and the bar service that they would have before. So, we’re definitely seeing differences in businesses that are getting hit really hard.

We’re still engaging in the same way and trying to create a solution that solves that problem for them and getting someone back on track, or getting then on a program that will ultimately get them that contract. And then, you’re seeing on the consumer side, you know, there is a lot of relief on the consumer side when you’re talking about the….you know, some people are making more money, a law on unemployment than they were before so, you know, those consumers have some more money in their pockets and they’re looking to settle up some of their debt at a discount, or working on the payment arrangement now that they have some extra funds. So, you know, we’re definitely seeing a little bit of a difference in the behavior between the two.

Peter: Right, okay. So then, I’m curious about….like with the clients that you work with, particularly in the lending space, you know, obviously Bankers Healthcare Group and the banks and credit unions, these are all lenders, I mean, how should they be thinking about……what is your advice for them that they should be doing differently now when it comes to sort of the receivables that are….obviously, it’s been a challenging time and things are different, what’s your advice for the lenders at the start of this process, for the borrowers that have really…might just have recently taken out a loan?

Jake: Yeah, that’s a great question. It’s something that we’ve really been focusing on because part of our practice is to…..it’s really kind of looking at what our clients are doing internally, providing some best practices, or some coaching around, you know, what we see across all spaces to help our clients and, obviously, we’re really focused on the collection side of the piece. But, what we like to see is, and what we’re telling people, is they should be looking at their account receivable and their entire collections process like a profit center. So, especially at this point in time, your collections portfolio can really make or break you as a fintech, or as a lender.

So, we’re seeing record loan modifications in deferment packages that are coming out here from all these lending institutions. So, we’re suggesting that it’s very important that they really need to focus on the plan to bring those people back successfully from that if they’re out of deferment because that’s just a pool that’s sitting out there….that if they don’t have a good pulse on what’s happening with them how they’re going to bring them back to probably paying accounts again that could be really detrimental to their bottom line and potentially results in undercapitalization and possibly going out of business, depending on the size.

So, we really suggest focusing on that, focusing on gathering data from those accounts, developing collection KPI’s and dashboards is always a great best practice and then utilizing a strong collections agency partner, one that really melds well with their mission, vision, value and really an additional source because as we all know, a lot of lenders, a lot of banks, fintechs, whatever it might be, don’t necessarily have as many collections staff as they have, you know, lending officers, things of that nature. So, you know, you want to be able to use a strong agency partner as, at least, a backstop to help you.

Al: One thing I’ll add there, guys, that’s really important and it’s so simple. When you have these conversations with banks, fintechs, the chief credit guys at these organizations, you ask them, how often do you touch on your clients, how often do you communicate with them, do you have that partnership approach. So, if they are keeping it in-house they don’t probably need us, but it’s always a good thing for them, right. Communicate, communicate and over communicate, keep your fingers on the pulse of what the borrower is doing and when you do that, you’re likely be able to sort of pivot a little bit and prevent them from going down that road. Again, this is a challenging time…and sort of challenging circumstance for anybody. In general practices, communication is key, it makes a big difference.

Peter: Right, right. So right now, we’re still at the early stages of this crisis. I saw one of the fed rules of governors said that they expect 30% unemployment in the next quarter, that’s going to impact you guys because, right now, people still have stimulus money, unemployment money. If we get to 30% unemployment, how do you prepare for that?

Jake: Yeah. You know, as a lender or a fintech, somebody who’s a credit rancher, that person could be a business that extends credit to, you know, performance and invoice out. You know, I think, across the board, people need to realize and understand and take kind of a second look and evaluate their collections, their billing, their recovery strategies, you know, different options that they’re willing to do, people who are struggling, you know, whether that’s payment agreement options, or deferment options, again, looking at a strong agency partner. You know, we’re really here, we’re the backbone to help, guide these debtors whether they’re businesses or consumers, to get them back on a better financial path and really help them and spend the time that’s needed to help them.

You know, a lot of lending institutions, especially if they’re dealing with say…..maybe they’re doing a lot of PPP loans that’s going to take a lot of their staff’s time and they’re pulling people from multiple divisions to help with that. So, that’s another area where we can really help….is we’re focused, this is all we do. I think people need to me meeting with their leadership teams regularly to review the current state of their portfolio, you know, what’s the loss number for this month, what’s the migration look like from a first payment missed all the way to the whole cycle through charge off, then looking at what’s coming in on recoveries and then really mining data.

So, Alistair touched on that a little bit in the last point, but really, you need the data from these people, especially if they’re out there on a deferment plan, or if they’re just sitting in your accounts receivable right now. You know, maybe it’s a survey that you send out to get some additional information, additional insight that your leadership and business team need to really adjust models because lenders are going to continue to lend and do business so, you want to make sure you’re getting all of that actionable data from the ground to really be able to change and move your credit models and move your recovery and loss models and get everything in one really cohesive mindset so that the left hand knows what the right hand’s doing. It’s very important in this time more than ever, in my opinion, to really have that focus across the board.

Peter: Yeah, yeah. So, we’re almost out of time, but a couple of more things I really want to get to. I’m curious about the notion of when to bring in a third party like yourselves. Like a lot of lenders are listening to this, they probably have a system in place where maybe they hand off after 30 days late, maybe its after 15 days late, maybe it’s 60 days, what’s the advantage of handing off to you guys earlier rather than doing it in-house for a longer period of time?

Jake: Yeah, that’s a great question. It’s going to depend on the business and the business needs, but with our solutions we do provide that full cycle collections solution. We have the first party which is the collections in the name of the creditor, so that’s a great addition to maybe have a couple of staff members that are dedicated to collection, but you need a little bit more capacity, you need a little bit of an overflow value. We can come in and do that, or you can do the whole thing because, again, if you just want a group specialized that handles this, you know, that’s a great option.

A lot of people in lending organizations kind of wear multiple hats from what we’ve seen so, our firm and our belief that having a really focused group of people handling your collection is really the best bet. And then, in terms of that transition to….if you’re going to do your internal stuff yourself, getting it over to us sooner rather than later really does help in terms of your recovery percentages. The longer the debt sits out there uncollected, the more difficult it is, or the longer it will take for an agency, or anybody to really, you know, recover on that debt. So, we kind of see the sweet spot anywhere between 60 and 120 days is when we have a lot of clients that place that with our third party side of the business and, you know, again, we get much better results when we get it sooner.

And what’s very interesting too is when we have a client that utilize us in a third party capacity, what we tell them to do is ….you know, it’s another point of leverage so, really adjusting the scripts to your internal team, or adjusting your scripts to say a first party vendor and saying, hey, listen, I understand you’re going through some tough times, we’re trying to work something out with you here, but, unfortunately, at 90 days or at 60 days I’m going to have to place your account with our collections partner and you have to kind of talk with them and work something out further with them.

You know, we find that a lot of people will kind of say, okay, yes sounds good, I’ll take the deal at this point so, we find that point of leverage is really important and then, you know, obviously, we would engage at that point on the third party level and really come in there as more of a problem solver…hey, what’s going on here, I understand your situation, we’ve all been there, but let us really come with a solution that will work for you as well as our client. You know, we’re kind of more of the middle party really just trying to help both sides.

Peter: Okay. Finally then, what’s on tap for you, guys, when you look through the rest of this year and beyond, what are you planning for CCM?

Al: That’s a phenomenal question, glad you asked it, it excites me, right. So, had you asked me that question three months ago, I might have a different answer and I say that because when things (garbled) crisis like this occur, you really see what you’re made of. And what was amazing to me was seeing how this team hipped it up with a drop of a hat, there’s a story there.

Jake and I are coming back from California, from an auto finance show, I get a call from Jake basically saying, hey, go home, you’re working from home, this COVID thing is kind of blowing up and getting to be serious. I said, you got it so, we got home. That Friday, it was Thursday when I was driving and Jake said head home, that Friday morning, I had all my Its at my doorstep and my large screen at (garbled) the whole nine yards. IT was there to make sure I had everything I needed and then Monday, that following Monday we had a call. We had Zoom set up, we had Zoom meetings every single day and the third party collection manager said, you know, this has been the best Monday we had (Peter laughs).

So, when you think of that, an organization can literally pivot at a drop of the hat like we did, (garbled) organizational abilities of that team, the unified nature of that team from operations, to sales, to marketing, to Jake, to myself and so forth, etc., it really speaks volumes about what they can do for their clients and I was never more proud, and I think we all helped each other, how we literally just….business as usual, we got this, we got you, the client, debtor, we’re with you, we’re going to help you get through this.

So, when that happens, we really realized that there’s nothing we can’t do, if we can jointly navigate through this as well as we have, we are so well poised to succeed in this disruptive market place and really change the image, change the notion, change the ideals that are out there around this industry and they get more well received. That’s our goal, to really disrupt what’s happening out there. As far as numbers go, Peter, we’re tracked to increase our revenue 500% in 2020 above 2019….

Peter: Wow!

Al: ……..and that coupled with, you know, massive human capital and massive technology investment that Jake said. We’re excited now, we’re looking to shake things up out there. (Peter laughs) It’s good stuff, we’re really proud of (garbled)

Peter: Alright. Last word, Jake?

Jake: One hundred percent, couldn’t have said it any better. We’re very excited, we’re super excited getting out here and it’s really….kind of going back to what we touched on and kind of a company overview, we’re a whole notion going, you know, moving forward is forget everything you know about the collections industry. We’re re-thinking it, we’re re-imagining it and we’re recovering for the US, our clients and we’re recovering honestly the industry as a whole because it’s so vital to our nation’s economy to make sure that if credit is granted and extended, that that debt is then repaid.

Peter: Most definitely. Well, Jake, Alistair, I really appreciate you guys coming on the show. Thank you very much.

Alistair: We appreciate it, Peter.

Jake: Thank you, Peter.

Peter: Okay, see you.

You know, my father, before he became an entrepreneur, he was actually a credit manager for a construction company. It’s actually the first job I remember him having as a little kid and even back then he used to say that it was important to be firm, but gentle. I think that’s really what I’m hearing the CCM guys saying is that being an empathetic collection agency/collection partner and really having a people first approach.

It’s the right thing to do and it, actually, is effective. I mean, you’re firm, but gentle and you give people an opportunity to tell their story because there’s a lot of people struggling right now. I think, most people don’t want to be treated as an account number, I don’t think anyone does, they want to be heard and I think that’s the approach that CCM is taking, that’s probably why they’re growing so much and it is important that, I think, we maintain our humanity here. It sounds like, it’s also the most effective way to try and collect money.

Anyway on that note, I will sign off. I very much appreciate you listening and I’ll catch you next time. Bye.

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