Catherine Berman, Co-Founder & CEO of CNote

Catherine Berman, Co-Founder & CEO of CNote

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Impact investing is having a moment. While it has been around in some form for several decades, today, many large and small investors are demanding that their money do more. They don’t just want to make an impact investment, they want to see exactly how they made an impact, in a measurable way.

Our next guest on the Lend Academy Podcast is Catherine Berman, the CEO and co-founder of CNote. Her company makes it easy to invest in both cash and fixed income and see a measurable impact. Their investments drive economic justice in underserved communities across this country.

In this podcast you will learn:

  • The founding story of CNote.
  • A description of their mission.
  • How their different offerings are structured.
  • A story about one of the people they helped.
  • How they select the institutions to work with.
  • How they put bespoke opportunities together.
  • How they work with CDFIs and MDIs.
  • The types of investors that come to CNote.
  • The returns they offer investors.
  • How their high yield investments have performed.
  • How the Black Lives Matter movement has impacted their business.
  • How they are getting the word out today.
  • What the process was like for their recent funding round.
  • How CNote makes money.
  • Their goals for this year.

Read a transcription of our conversation below.


Welcome to the Lend Academy Podcast, Episode No. 282, this is your host, Peter Renton, Founder of Lend Academy and Co-Founder of LendIt Fintech.


Today’s episode is sponsored by Lendit Fintech USA, the world’s largest fintech event dedicated to lending and digital banking. LendIt’s flagship event is happening online this year on April 27th to 29th with the possibility of an exclusive VIP in-person component. The verdict is in on LendIt’s 2020 event that was held online with many people saying it was the best virtual event they’d ever attended. LendIt is setting the bar even higher in 2021, so join the fintech community at LendIt Fintech USA where you will meet the people who matter, learn from the experts and get business done. Sign up today at

Peter Renton: Today on the show, I’m delighted to welcome Cat Berman, she is the CEO and Co-Founder of CNote. Now, CNote’s a super interesting company, it’s an investment platform that has been designed purely for social impact so they invest in….we get into this in some depth, as you can imagine, but it’s social impact either, you know, for investing in minority communities, investing in climate change, green technology that sort of thing, but really a platform designed to have every dollar going towards some sort of social impact program.

Now, she has a cash product, a fixed income product, works with institutions and individuals, we get into all of this. It really is an interesting company that has recently raised a round of capital which we talk about as well. It was a fascinating interview, hope you enjoy the show.

Welcome to the podcast, Cat!

Cat Berman: Thanks so much for having me, Peter.

Peter: My pleasure. So, I’d like to get this thing started by giving the listeners a little bit of background about yourself and what you’ve done before CNote so can you share some of the highlights.

Cat: Sure. Prior to CNote, I was Managing Director at Charles Schwab. Prior to that, I was in venture capital for several years and before that I ran two successful companies.

Peter: Okay, okay. So then, was it at Charles Schwab or where did the idea for CNote come from?

Cat: Yeah, absolutely. So, it was around 2015, and I was really seeing the confluence of a few events. One was the rise in socially responsible investing. You know, we had been interested in talking about socially responsible investing of the industry, really started to see the assets flow and not just from the millennial base, which is what we expected, but really from some of our largest clients.

And so, the excitement around being able to align your investments in a competitive way with your values was trying to gain more and more traction. At the same time, it was the presence and acknowledgment of a rising wealth gap and I think for me, personally, it became very, very hard to continue to acknowledge it without doing something about it. Specifically, I sat in a cushy office in San Francisco recognizing the disparity between those who were enjoying a healthy economy and those who were continuing to struggle purely because of where they were born, because of the color of their skin, because of, you know, who their parents were.

And so, the thought that crossed my mind is how can each of us play a role in creating a more equitable economy. I think, for years, we’ve really relied on government sources to kind of close that wealth gap and what we found, over the years, is it’s not enough. Certainly now and at this time in history, I think, most of us are much more aware of that.

But, at that time, I think, it was still an argument of should we do something about it and how can we do something about it. So, my thought process was we absolutely need to do something about it to address the wealth gap and that financial innovation was the way we could do it, really unlocking the power of our investments, particularly cash and fixed income, presented a historic opportunity to really address the rising wealth gap.

Peter: Okay. So then, how would you describe your mission because i know you’re a mission-driven company so what is the mission?

Cat: We are. So, we use the power of financial innovation to help close the wealth gap in this country.

Peter: Okay, okay. So, maybe let’s dig into that, why don’t we dig into the different offerings you have and how you’re actually trying to close the wealth gap.

Cat: Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, our thought was two-fold. Number one is the power of investments, but number two is the power of technology to make it easier to invest in what we call community investments, right. So, what I observed over the years is there is a lot of innovation as it related to social responsible investing and investing with your values in the public equity space, but there was very little innovation in the fixed income and cash base.

So, that’s really the area that we focused on at CNote which is how do we use the power of technology to make it easier to use your cash and fixed income in a competitive and socially responsible way. And so, there’s really two sides of our business; one is the product side, we create competitive impactful products with your cash and fixed income allocation. And the other is the software side of our business, technology that enables institutions to identify, manage and report on their impact investments in a seamless way.

Peter: Okay. So then, let’s talk about the first one for a minute like how is it structured, who you’re working with, just tell us a little bit more detail.

Cat: Absolutely. You know, we focus on cash and fixed income and a really great example of this is our cash technology. In that, we are able to move millions of dollars, if not billions, into Minority Deposit Institutions, community banks, other deposit institutions that are really going to work for low income communities and communities of color.

So, how do we do that? Again, it’s really using seamless technology so that our partners, our clients such as large corporations like Mastercard, large foundations like the San Francisco Foundation are able to count on us to move, again, large sums of money into these communities in a way that, again, is competitive, right, because obviously they have the fiduciary responsibility around capital preservation and around competitive deal, but also impactful, but may also have the responsibility to do this in a way that’s measurable and meaningful. And so, we’re able to do both sides of that, right, really move those deposits in a way that it’s fully insured, FDIC-insured and Seaway-insured, but at scale with tractable impact.

Peter: Right. And I know that’s you’ve got….I watched a video on your website and you’ve got some great stories of people who were directly impacted by what you guys are doing. Can you share one of those stories with the listeners?

Cat: Yeah. I appreciate you asking because one of the things we talk about is when individuals or institutions invest with CNote, right, they’re really affecting people’s lives. It’s not just an esoteric… I hope this company is doing something interesting with my money, there’s real individuals behind your investments and your deposits.

One example I can give you is a very inspiring woman entrepreneur called Jamine Moton. Jamine is an African American entrepreneur out of Atlanta, she had the vision years ago to create her own security company. She worked for other security firms, you know, security for large events, sporting events and realized that they really were devoid of high quality service and, you know, kind of customer first service. So, she said she wanted to launch her own security so she went… like any reasonable entrepreneur she had to capitalize her company and she thought, okay, so if I’m going to get this started, how do I actually get a responsible loan or responsible capital to start this journey.

So, she went to her local bank and she went to a few banks and what she found was she was declined again and again and again and again. Smart woman, great background, obviously great business plan, but kept getting declined. And this, unfortunately, is the case that we see with a lot of black entrepreneurs throughout the country, right. They’ll go to a traditional financial institution and not be able to access the dollars that they need to start or grow their business. So, fortunately, for Jamine’s case, she did not give up, she went to one of our CDFI partners or community development partners and we have a network of them across the country that we work with.

They function very similarly in terms of providing loans, but the difference is they work with entrepreneurs like Jamine, both to provide accessible capital, fair loans as well as technical assistance to really help them grow their business. And so, fortunately, when Jamine went to our CDFI or community lender partners in Atlanta, she was not declined, she was actually accepted and encouraged. She started on that journey, she received her first loan and she was able to really grow her business. If you fast forward today, I’m proud to say that Jamine is a successful entrepreneur, capping to over a million in ARR, hiring local talent out of Atlanta and her firm, Skylar Security, was actually asked to be one of the security firms for the Atlanta Super Bowl.

And so, I assure that to say, you know, that the dollars that Jamine received, that fair loan that Jamine got to start her business came through because of pipes like CNote, right, came through because of what we were able to do with our community lenders to get those dollars that you or an institution have put in moved in through the CNote pipes along the way and get them the end result which was to Jamine. That’s the type of effect, I think, all individuals and all institutions can have when they start moving their dollars from their traditional containers into some of these impactful socially responsible cash and fixed income solutions.

Peter: Right, right. So, you’ve talked about CDFIs, you talked about MDIs, minority depository institutions, like how many do you work with, how do you select them and there’s obviously…I don’t know how many there are, there’s hundreds, I believe, but what’s your process? Do you work with any of these institutions that come along, how do you select them?

Cat: Yeah. So, we love speaking about the deposit institutions, in particular, because we do think for those corporations, institutions, even individuals who are looking to step into this, sometimes the easiest way to try is through an FDIC-insured account, right. And so, the idea of credit risk or the idea of, you know, what’s going to happen to my money is often a very quick conversation because, again, every dollar is federally insured and yet, just by moving those dollars into one of these institutions, you are able to create tremendous impact and inspire and fund more of these entrepreneurs like Jamine.

And so, there is a very large network that we’ve created, CDFI banks and credit unions and continue to create them with some amazing industry partners. And we look at things, obviously, like financial strength, financial performance, financial solvency, track record, right, whether or not they have weathered past recessions, past economic downturns and we also look at impact, right, who is the leadership of those institutions, who are they serving, how are they serving.

And what we find is specifically working in the amazing CDFI industry we’re able to really move dollars into projects ranging from not just, you know, funding incredible black entrepreneurs, but also creating schools in low income communities, you know, building opportunities in food deserts, addressing some of the issues in rural America native communities really, focusing on economic empowerment for women.

So, some of the central themes, I think that are really resonant right now as a country and specifically racial justice fits squarely within what we work on with our CDFI partners and where your dollars go. I think there is the importance of understanding, obviously, the strength of that financial institution and, obviously, the importance of making sure that your dollars are going to a place that reflects your values.

Peter: Right. So, can you just explain to because I really don’t understand this, how is it that you can invest money, FDIC-insured money, into a small business. It, obviously, is a pretty risky investment, I mean, obviously through the CDFI, but can you explain the mechanics of that?

Cat: Yeah, absolutely. So, if you think about two opportunities, one is a federally-insured opportunity with the Promise account and the other is our CNote Promise account and the other is a loan to opportunity through one of our loan funds products. When you are…..most of these small business lending that we’re doing is through our loan funds pipe like the flagship fund which is one of our oldest products with millions of dollars going through it. When you’re investing in our Promise account, it’s really moving deposits, right, that’s really where the federal insurance comes in and then we’re doing a lot more work on things like housing and consumer lending.

So, it’s a great question because the question we ask back to our client is, you know, what are you looking to achieve, right, is it return first, is it liquidity first, is it a specific impact such as I want to make sure that I am funding more women like Jamine or maybe I want to make sure I am addressing the climate crisis. And so, the beauty is because we work with such a vast database of both financial institutions and impact, we’re able to really craft something, either bespoke for that institution or put you in one of our existing products that has the power of diversification, but has elements of those specific variables.

Peter: Right. So, just to be clear then, the money that is going out into the high yield product isn’t FDIC-insured, is that correct?

Cat:  Correct, exactly. It’s really important distinction, it’s just like any, you know, fixed income and cash conversation. You, as investor, have to decide, do I want these dollars to be federally-insured, if so, great, we have the promise account or do I want to have to treat this as an investment and take on more risk return profile. For that, and we have a variety of loan fund pipes, but that’s correct.

Peter: Right. And, tell us a little bit about this bespoke product you said….a large institution might come along and say, okay, we want to do something around climate change or whatever, what do you do and how do you put something bespoke together?

Cat: That’s one of our most exciting opportunities because, you know, one of the mantras we say at CNote is impact is deeply personal. And so, if I ask you, what is racial justice to you, that may be very different than, you know, what that means to your wife or what that means to your neighbor. And so, one of the things we love is because we work across so many institutions with such a large data set, we can actually hyper customize.

So, for example, we may get a call from an institution that says racial justice means to me, I want to see more affordable capital go to communities of color in New York, we can do that. We can create a bespoke fixed income bond just puts that money into the state of New York and addresses and provide fair access to capital for communities of color. We can also say something more thematic, I just want to make sure that all of my dollars are going to native women entrepreneurs, for example, or perhaps to low income schools. And so, the good news is, again, because we work across such a rich data set, we can do that level of hyper customization, both on the impact, but also on profile such as yields, maturity and liquidity.

Peter: So, I get like the entrepreneurs working with CDFI……how do you do it with schools, I mean, what’s the vehicle there?

Cat: Yeah. It should be able to create. So, if you think about the ability to build affordable housing, there’s a similar need to be able to build specific schools, whether it’s early childhood education or unique special education schools. Oftentimes, they’re going after a bond or some type of lending instrument to get it done so that’s really where CDFI steps in is the ability to do that, specifically, neighborhoods that perhaps are not getting the support from local financial institutions or are perhaps not large enough to get an admissible or from a regulated issued bond.

Peter: Right, right. And so, what underwriting do you do because….I mean, you talked about the lady from the security firm in Atlanta, I mean, do you have anything to do with the underwriting process of that particular borrower or is it more…that’s the CDFI’s role and you’re investing in the CDFI?

Cat: It is the latter and it’s a great question because, you know, for the listeners who are not familiar with this acronym, CDFI, it stands for Community Development Financial Institution, but the easiest way to think about them is they’re community lenders. They look and feel a lot like your bank, but the local bank is out there to do good. It’s not a new industry, this industry has been around for over 40 years and with a average loss rate for the industry of less than 1%. So, if you think about who should be picking these borrowers, it clearly should be the 40-year old industry that’s proven this decade after decade that they’re excellent at what they do.

So, when we find out for this, we started building our technology, it was really to empower those incredible CDFIs to do what they do best and do it at scale. And so, no, we don’t pick Jamine per se or Cindy or Jamal or some of these wonderful entrepreneurs that we end up funding, That is absolutely the CDFI’s job, it is on the ground, meeting with them, understanding their business, understanding their profile and making that assessment. What we’re doing is funding up the CDFI organizational loan to make sure that they are getting the capital in a seamless way that they need to continue to do those types of high impact loans.

Peter: Right. But, if you’re doing particularly on the bespoke side, I imagine, if you’ve got like a pension fund or an endowment or whatever, they want to invest just in this particular problem then, I imagine, you go to a CDFI that addresses that particular problem, is that right? Some CDFIs would address multiple different problems, do you say, right, this money needs to go to this problem, is that how it works?

Cat: Precisely, that’s right. And so, that money is actually earmarked, targeted in going to work for that specific part of what the firm is doing.

Peter: Right, right. And so, can you just maybe talk about the investor side. I mean, it seems like you’re open to individual investors, but, I imagine just from what you’ve been saying, it’s really more of an institutional focus and that makes sense. But, just tell us a little bit about the investor side of the business.

Cat: Yeah, absolutely. So, the main investors we work with today are large institutions, to your point, so large corporations, large foundations, banks who are looking to do more efficient investments on the cash and fixed income side, right. Many of them are saying, I’d love to put dollars into community, right, or I’d love to move cash into Minority Deposit Institutions, how do you do that at scale? And I can tell you, this is an industry that has been manual for decades and so for us to bring technology to the table, to bring automation and analytics and say, we can mobilize millions if not billions of dollars in a very efficient, impactful, traceable way, right, is a big step up for these organizations that, again, have shown interest over the years to do something like this, but the friction points around actually deploying those dollars and then measuring those dollars has often felt insurmountable.

So, today like I said, a lot of the large foundations like Sierra Club and others….. but we also do have a great online platform for individuals who are just wanting to take a step into this and say their cash and fixed income can still create, you know, meaningful returns and meaningful impact and certainly a place to start.

Peter: And so, what kind of returns are we talking about? Say for cash account, obviously, this is going to be a really low interest FDIC and everything FDIC-insured is low interest today so what are cash account and what was it, a promise account, was that the one that was the high yield one?

Cat: Yeah. So, on the loan fund side, we have instruments called the flagship fund which is providing a 2.75% return. It is a 30-month instrument, 30-month maturity with quarterly liquidity, right, so pretty competitive as you can tell in the market in terms of both liquidity and yield and, again, 100% impact. I will say that we’ve been offering that instrument for years and have had zero losses, zero defaults, zero late payments to give you a sense of the performance of these vehicles.

And then on the flipside, we have cash, right, so that’s a great fixed income example. On the flipside, we have the promise account which is our cash solution and that’s again mobilizing your cash into these really impactful, strong community banks, CDFI banks, credit unions, Minority Deposit Institutions and that’s paying out between 30 and 40 bits today.

Peter: Right, right, okay, that makes sense. So, what is the legal structure, if I may just for a second, particularly for the individuals is what I’m merely thinking about. Are these like Reg A+ offerings or what are you actually doing on the legal side of things?

Cat: Yeah. They’re both Reg A and Reg D, depending on whether you’re accredited or not accredited.

Peter: Okay, okay, great. So, obviously 2020 was a pretty unique year, particularly for someone like yourself, I imagine, we had the pandemic, but maybe more importantly, we had the Black Lives Movement and so much more awareness from corporations or individuals all across the spectrum of… know, there seems to be a tipping point where people have gone from saying, we need to do something about this, but it’s really like now is the time we actually need to act and so how has that impacted your business?

Cat: Yeah. You can imagine, it very positively impacted our business. You know, what we have created from day one was a vehicle to instill more racial justice, a big amount of justice in this country. And so, the fact that the discussion of we do not live in equitable society, the conversation around not every individual has a fair shot at financial freedom and how do we level that playing field, you know, that conversation wasn’t happening, has frequently, as openly……even a couple of years ago.

But, to your point, 2020 was definitely a landmark year where we finally got to have that conversation more openly, more freely and seeing new actors have that conversation, you know, seeing folks … know, corporations that perhaps had employees that cared about the issue, but at the highest levels perhaps were not having that conversation. You know, we’re seeing some of the foundations that were more community-focused or thematic-focused and thought that, you know, perhaps racial justice wasn’t an area they had to play for now.

Wait a minute, maybe that’s something we should look at in terms of how our themes interact with that. And so, it really is an exciting time that this conversation of inequity is happening across the map and what we’re most excited about is the ability to deliver it at scale, right, for those organizations, institutions that are saying, yes, we stand for greater racial justice, yes, we stand for more diversity and inclusion. How do we do something about it, how do we do something visibly, authentically and at scale and, again, we’re just proud that we’ve been able to create that technology to make it very easy to step into that.

Peter: Yeah. I imagine that… people, they want to see actual results, they want to see actual change that is being brought by their money and I think that is one of the great things that you guys are offering. So, you know, I’m curious about the….I mean, during this year….how are you getting the word out and how did it change in 2020 because….you know, we first chatted several years ago when you were getting going and I’d love to know the kind of….what changed as far as getting the word out for you guys.

Cat: Absolutely. I think, you know, first and foremost obviously we have a wonderful biz dev and advisory team that is fantastic, just in terms of creating those great connections and really meeting people where they’re at because we do find that as institutions are stepping into that, there are some who find that….you know, start me with FDIC-insured, every last dollar is federally protected and I’m going to step into that, great, we’re happy to do that and we find others are much ready to embrace a little bit more risk and say, no, actually I want to do a bespoke note because we really want to walk the walk on a certain theme.

And so, you know, I give a lot of credit to our team for really being able to meet those clients and prospective clients where they’re at, but, I will also say, Peter, one of our most successful strategies, honestly, had been word-of-mouth. I do think the experience per client is so powerful and you alluded to this. You know, in a world where those of us who consider value as the one investing often end up with our adviser or with our team members into this kind of esoteric conversation of whether or not my portfolio is actually having an impact and how many women are on those board, what was the corporate offering last year. In fixed income and cash, it’s a lot more straightforward.

In the world that we plan it is not a question of whether your money made impact, it’s where it went and we can show you that trail to say when you gave us that $5 Million here’s where it went and here’s who were affected and here’s what it built. And so, the direct impact and the measurability of it and the stories we get to tell around fixed income and cash are so palpable that we find a lot of our clients experience that and end up coming back for more and end up telling their friends.

So, that’s when I think a really exciting part of the journey is I don’t think fixed income and cash were appreciated as a real opportunity, not just on the impact side, but on the competitive return side, right. Our ability to unlock these asset classes is not just good for the community, it’s excellent for your portfolio as measured by our track record and the returns that we’re delivering. And so, I think, again, once you have that experience, we’d like to say the market speaks, right, and those that are coming back for more and sharing it with their colleagues, for us it’s the greatest proof of this being the right direction.

Peter: Right, right, that makes sense. So, are you also open to individuals through retirement accounts like IRAs, is that available?

Cat: Yeah. We are not yet working on the retirement front. It’s certainly something we’re very interested in. You know, there’s been a lot of change in the retirement industry, both culturally and legislatively, and so we’re just keeping abreast of that and then now engaging in some new conversations. We are seeing a lot of pressure from both the top as well as employees saying we want this so we are very excited and very prepared to step into that, but, no, historically, that is not the place that we focused.

Peter: Right, right, okay. So, I want to talk about your funding round from last month, this is a sort of catalyst to this conversation. I saw the news, I need to get back in contact with Cat again and so tell us about the funding round, you’ve got some good names there that have invested with you, how was that process?

Cat: Yeah, absolutely. So, as you can imagine, we saw 2020 take off and we’re so excited to see how many new players were stepping into this type of impactful investing and it was a real growth opportunity for us. We were getting more calls and more interest than we can handle and so that’s really where we went after this next funding round of how do we really catalyze this growth in a meaningful way.

And so, we brought in, obviously, some of our earlier investors who signed up for the next phase and to your point, some really exciting new investors that saw the opportunity from a  financial landscape and from a services lens of this clearly where the industry is going and yet where is the innovation around cash and fixed income. And so, I think it was a nice marriage for all of us and just continue to see their support as we move into this year.

Peter: Right, right. So then, can you explain, what is your business model exactly, how are you making money? Are you taking money on the spread or what do you do?

Cat: Yeah. We have, obviously, the product set of our business where we do take money on the spread as well as custom fees, right, when we curate and customize products. And then on the flipside, on the software side, more customary kind of service fees.

Peter: Okay, okay. And then, what about scale, I mean, can you give us some sense of the scale you guys are at today?

Cat: Yeah, absolutely. So, we’re now working with over 60 large institutions across the country and actually, across the globe now in order to mobilize their fixed income and cash and many of them household names like Mastercard and Sierra Club and others.

Peter: Okay. And then, what about with your team, I mean, I think you’re based in San Francisco, right, or in the Bay Area.

Cat: Based in Oakland, California.

Peter: Oakland, I’m sorry, not San Francisco, yes.

Cat: (laughs)

Peter: And is your team distributed around the country or it looks like you’re working from home. Is that what your team has been doing, I imagine, this past few months?

Cat: Absolutely, yes. So, we were a pretty distributed team before this. You know, in some of the other companies I run, I’ve always felt that there’s real power in actually having diversity in voices, diversity in perspective, diversity in location so that was pretty much our strategy from day one, obviously, set up a pretty connected team. So, when we had to all move into not working from, you know, either our office or our cafes, but working from home, fortunately, there weren’t as many bumps.

But, I will say, like every team out there, right, the importance of just, you know, keeping that connectivity, keeping that alignment with what we’re trying to achieve and then really just taking care of your team, right, the self-care piece of this and making sure that everybody is first and foremost, you know, weathering this from a personal, physical and mental health perspective well. So, I think that’s really been our focus, you know, last year and going to this year. We are only as good as our team and so they are of utmost importance for me and I’m sure for many of the folks listening.

Peter: Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, we are recording this on January 13th, pretty close to the start of the year. We’ve got the whole of 2021 in front of us, what are your goals for CNote this year?

Cat: Yeah. I mean, continue growth and leadership in the space. I think we see this as just an incredible opportunity for both  (inaudible) our clients, right, who are really moving aggressively into this market so I would say, market leadership using our technology, using our vast database, using our expertise to really make this the industry standard for responsible investing in cash and fixed income.

Peter: Okay, Well, we’ll have to leave it there, Cat, it’s been great chatting with you again and I appreciate the work you’re doing and all the best.

Cat: Thank you so much for having me, Peter.

Peter: Okay, see you.

Cat and I were joking after we stopped recording that this has not been an easy undertaking, this is a hard challenge to really bring this kind of platform to bear, but the events of 2020 have certainly given them some momentum and really, it’s getting more and more important that people want to be able to not just say put their money to work and get a return. They want to see what impact, meaning obviously a lot of philanthropists have been doing that for some time, but now it’s more like the average person….they just don’t want to earn a return, they want to see what impact their money has that’s why I really am excited about what CNote is doing.

I think even from individual investors who just want to invest a small amount of money, you can still invest and have manimum using technology to connect those people who want to do that to the recipients who need the money. I think that’s a noble cause and one I think is only going to become more important as time goes on.

Anyway on that note, I will sign off. I very much appreciate you listening and I’ll catch you next time. Bye.

Today’s episode was sponsored by LendIt Fintech USA, the world’s largest fintech event dedicated to lending and digital banking. LendIt’s flagship event is happening online this year on April 27th to 29th with the possibility of an exclusive VIP in-person component. The verdict is in on LendIt’s 2020 event that was held online with many people saying it was the best virtual event they’d ever attended. LendIt is setting the bar even higher in 2021, so join the fintech community at LendIt Fintech USA where you will meet the people who matter, learn from the experts and get business done. Sign up today at